| Author | Message | ||
| Martin van Hoof
Unregistered guest |
How reliable are the statistics/hi-scores on your web. I personaly don't tamper with it, but the way the scores are submitted, enables tampering quite easy. Furthermore, I think the possibility to compare your scores with others is one of the most pleasant added value of the program, so care must be taken to avoid tampering, if possible. Are there changes planned to remedy this problem. I realize that foul play is a universe problem and will not be solved but can only be discouraged, but with the current approach of the program I am not inclined to send my statistics because I can only compete with real scores (the games are difficult enough as it is). By the way, cool product, ideal for short breaks, and burning up company time (oops). Thanx, Martin van Hoof | ||
| eglazier
Unregistered guest |
i have looked at the statistics of the games i have played extensively, and have great doubts about some of them. i do not expect that i will have the highest score, but when i see scores that statistically look to be outside normal limits, 3 sigma being 99%+, and some of these appearing to be within 5 sigma limits, i can only conclude there has been some creative accounting, or that the player has played only one game over and over. i am not certain how to determine that scores are not valid, except for a statistical check, and i do not know of a way to keep people honest, but then i suppose that if it means that much to someone, let them do it and the rest of us can just discount their scores. because the same names appear to show up over and over, we will all know whom we can believe, or not. | ||
| Thomas Warfield (Support)
Moderator Username: Support Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2002 |
>How reliable are the statistics/hi-scores on your web. They are pretty reliable. There are a lot of checks in the system to stop cheating, and over the years more checks have been added and some holes have been plugged. I believe that with perhaps a very small number of exceptions, the scores are real. The biggest problem I have with the lists is duplicates, which occur because people post under different names or change their email addresses. I go through each list occasionally and delete these by hand. There are some games that have huge variances in the scores, Spider being an example. Spider is a very tough game and if you don't know a few little tips, your winning percentage can be very low (sometimes it's tough to win it at all!). Yet if you know the tips and are very persistent, it's actually possible to win nearly all of the time (there are some Spider positions that can be proven to be unwinnable, but they appear to be fairly rare). | ||
| Ken Millar
Unregistered guest |
I agree with the above users of the authenticity of some of the statistics. You have a hard time winning ANY of a particular game, and you log on and see somebody winning 399 out of 400 games, and you're like, "Come on, give me a break!" But that being said, there are sometimes when you just don't give up, you play the same game for days on end, you plead to the solitaire gods, you rationalize that 49/50 isn't bad, and when you finally win the game that you thought was unwinnable, it's such an incredible feeling of satisfaction. My beef isn't with the people who may or may not be manipulating the system, but with the people on the lower end of the spectrum. The ones whose names are always at the bottom. You feel like shouting, "C'mon, play the game more than once, take off the AutoPlay feature, give it some thought, and you'll be surprised how good you can get with just a little bit of effort!" We know about the "depth" of effort with the Ten Thousand Club, but what about the "breadth" of effort? I have won 355 of the 500 games in PSG. Has anybody won them all, or come close? | ||
| Thomas Warfield (Support)
Moderator Username: Support Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ken, >We know about the "depth" of effort with the Ten Thousand Club, but what about the "breadth" of effort? I have won 355 of the 500 games in PSG. Has anybody won them all, or come close? This is something that I'd like to add to the statistics someday. That is, have a list of the total number of all games that a person has played and also the total number of different games. It would be difficult to implement this under the current structure since each game is a separate database. However, I could create a new database when statistics are submitted to track this. This would mean that only people who submitted after the date this was implemented would be in the list, so people who submitted earlier would have to resubmit to get on the new list. It would be a little bit of work but it's something I'll probably do at some point when I get the time. | ||
| Bill Blasdel
Unregistered guest |
I just wish I could go back to a game I previously had given up on and recorded a loss, and give it another shot. The new results for this game should replace the old results in the statistics. At present, an old loss cannot be wiped out and, just as bad, a new failed attempt at the same game records a new loss. Great program Thomas. I 99% love it. | ||
| Ken Millar Unregistered guest |
I agree with Bill. Is there a way that if you play the same game number 10 times, and lose the first 9, but win it on the 10th try (for example), it will record only the win, not the losses. (I know that you can hit "Restart Game", but then you can't play anymore new games of the same game). | ||
| Thomas Warfield (Support)
Moderator Username: Support Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2002 |
>The new results for this game should replace the old results in the statistics. This was a big issue way back when the statistics were first added. There are arguments to be made for both ways, but in the end I decided that it was better for the statistics for each attempt to count as a game. This gives more integrity to the statistics than if you could try a game over and over again. There are also some technical considerations to having it replace an old score. For one thing, when you get up to thousands of games played it could take it a long time just to find any previous attempt at that game number. It would have to check every time and that would really slow the program down. | ||
| Sabine Mentrup (Sabine)
New Solitaire Player Username: Sabine Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2003 |
Wouldn´t it be possible to save a few games as "in process", so that one can try it again another time? This could be limited to 5 or 10 games. In the moment, I leave a game, when I think, it is not winnable at the moment (due to my personal performance), but perhaps on another day. To play a new game of the same game (and exercise), I can only use another user-name. | ||
| Susan Butler (Suzyq)
New Solitaire Player Username: Suzyq Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2003 |
One thing that I have long suspected with people who have unrealistic stats is that they play a game a large number of times, then they go through the stats and write down all the games that they have won, then delete the file and start over just playing the games that they know are winnable and then uploading their score. Some games are IMPOSSIBLE to win every time, but according to some people, they have. I too, have great suspicions. | ||
| Shannon Gomes
Unregistered guest |
Hello. I'm new to this site so excuse any glaring ignorance. A group of us (engineers with nothing better to do) have created software to calculate the 'winability' of certain solitare games. First on the list was Klondike. We needed some 'real world' statistics to compare our results to. After some poking around on the web we found this site. We have some misgivings about the validity of your statistics. The top 32 persons (3/28/03) have all won 100% of the games they claim to have played. This is simply not possible. I can give you many starting positions that are unwinnable. Sure someone can get extremely lucky and only deal games that are winnable but Linda of Avon Park FL has played over 50K games and has not lost once? How are your 'statistics' collected? Is this just an honor system? It would seem you have mostly dishonorable people reporting their stats. if that is the case!  | ||
| Thomas Warfield (Support)
Moderator Username: Support Post Number: 242 Registered: 12-2002 |
>The top 32 persons (3/28/03) have all won 100% of the games they claim to have played. This is simply not possible. Yes, it is. What you need to understand is that Pretty Good Solitaire's version of Klondike has several options which greatly affect winnability. First is the 1 card or 3 card draw option. The game is much easier to win if you have it set to 1 card draw instead of 3 card draw. The other is the KingOnly option. When the KingOnly option is turned off, you can play any card to an empty tableau pile. This also makes the game much easier to win. If you have the two options set to the easier setting, you can win pretty much every game of Klondike. If you have it set to the hard settings, then there are many games that cannot be won. The people winning every game are clearly setting their options to the easier settings. | ||
| Mike Bailin (Mikeb)
New Solitaire Player Username: Mikeb Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2003 |
Here's another interesting angle on stats and fairness -- if the "King only" option, where available, is turned off, it almost always makes a BIG difference in the likelihood of winning games. This doesn't make (most) games absolutely winnable, but it definitely increases the percentage of games won. The option to deal 1 card at a time instead of 3 (in many Klondike variations) also helps considerably. Is there any way, dear leader, to modify your stats structure so it keeps separate stats for different difficulty settings? They become, in effect, different games. I think one of the problems we're encountering in this topic is that we're unfairly comparing apples and oranges -- and worse yet, submitting the results to a single on-line stats list. Best to all, Mike | ||
| Shannon Gomes
Unregistered guest |
Ah Ha! Ok, well then I stand corrected. After I posted, I looked around your site. It seems that in addition to the two items you discuss above, you can also back up any number of moves. This will also help your winning percentage. I will add the 'King only' option to our software and see how it affects winnability. | ||
| Thomas Pavey
Unregistered guest |
Tom, On your latest version you corrected the flaw that enabled a player to play the game until the end; then if you lose just back up to the start of the game and start another. The one you backed up on never counted. Now if you start a game, it counts. Great new feature. Maybe you should: 1. Date the time a set of games is entered. 2. have the latest date override the one it replaces. 3. Start a new winners list every time you correct a loophole like the back up. | ||
| ellis glazier
Unregistered guest |
I have just read through all the postings for this subject and still have to come to the same conclusion; there are people who for some reason have no objection to massaging the data to make certain they come out on top. Doing it honestly is not in their lexicon, only winning is. There are games, which because of the randon fall of the cards, are not winnable every time no matter what the skill of the player might be. It is true that experience with any given game allows the player to increase his ability to win, but there are some scores where the player lists relatively few games but wins them all in a game where the rest of the winning percentages are much lower and the game has many players. I do not understand the impetus to get one's name at the top of the list by making up the statistics, though I can certainly see the wish to get one's name up there honestly, leaving many others in one's dust. It is a good feeling to have won. What is the feeling to get there by cheating? Has the person won anything? And especially in those games where it is rather obviously not honest playing that got the player there. I guess the rest of us will normally just discount the unusual winning scores and, because it is all by name, the players that claim them. | ||
| Jeralyn Taylor (Annika) Solitaire Player Username: Annika Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2004 |
This discussion is interesting. I am curently on a big winning streak on a game, which I have found to be winable for each deal, but not necessarily the first time one plays it. After a large number of losses, I discovered a very important factor in winning. Now if I lose, I restart and replay till I win. I have a high ranking, but most of the people ahead of me have 100%. I received a new computer for Christmas, so I guess I will lose my PGS stats, when I change over. Since I really enjoy this game, I will continue playing, and I suppose I will eventually have enough to submit a 100% score. I assume this is what the others with 100% have done. I chose not to clear score but to keep playing, and build up my percentage, to try to determine whether this game is always winnable,but now, I will not be able to keep the old statistics. I also have a top score in one of the Action Solitaire games, and I won it fairly. I had another game's top, but was beaten out by someone with a faster computer. Now I will have a fast computer, so I will try again. Annika | ||
| Diana Wu (Diana) Master Solitaire Player Username: Diana Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2003 |
Annika, No, you don't. Here is something from a previous thread.... "In version 7.2 and earlier, the data folder is the Games folder under the main program folder (for the Quest Edition, this would usually be C:\Program Files\goodsol01\Games). In version 8.0 and higher, the data folder location depends on the version of Windows. In Windows 98/ME, it is usually the C:\Windows\Application Data\Goodsol\Pretty Good Solitaire folder. In Windows NT/2000 and XP, it is usually the C:\Documents and Settings\[Windows User Name]\Application Data\Goodsol\Pretty Good Solitaire folder, where [Windows User Name] is your user name for Windows." | ||
| Jeralyn Taylor (Annika) Solitaire Player Username: Annika Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2004 |
My current PGS 10.1 and Action Sol games were played using Windows 98. My new computer will be Windows XP. How would I transfer the data from one computer to another? | ||
| Thomas Warfield (Support) Moderator Username: Support Post Number: 834 Registered: 12-2002 |
While there certainly are ways around the statistics that clever people find (and I close up these holes regularly when they are found), the overwhelming majority of the posted statistics are legitimate. Remember that there are a lot of ways to rack up a lot of games with a high winning percentage. Some people have been playing these games for many years now (the statistics posting has been up since 1999). You can get much better than the average player at many of the games that require skill. You can determine that a game is unwinnable and skip it by doing a new game before you play a move and the game won't count. You can keep restarting until you finally win. In short, there are lots of ways to get good scores and the overwhelming majority of people are honest. | ||
| Ken Blackwell (Blackie9) Solitaire Player Username: Blackie9 Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2003 |
I copy my data and carry it from computer to computer. Each time I play on a different computer I update it and keek compiling. I havent tried to tranfer from 98 tto XP however. Can it be done. | ||
| Diana Wu (Diana) Master Solitaire Player Username: Diana Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2003 |
Why not? I don't see any problems in the transfer. Just make sure that the name of the player is the same. And then just copy the file to the right place in XP (which should be easy since you created the player already). Thomas, if this is wrong, please enlighten us. | ||
| paul forsdick (Pondpaul) Master Solitaire Player Username: Pondpaul Post Number: 198 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi Ken this is how i did it copy the pretty good solitaire folder like you already do from your old computer to a floppy disk . then on the XP do the following first Start Control panel then double click folder options View then under hidden files there are 2 circles and select the one that shows hidden files and you can then see all the files. then copy the file into my computer ,local disk ,document and settings ,your name , application data, goodsol, and it should run for you with exactly the same details as the last time you played on the old computer hope this helps Paul | ||
| Don Wood
Unregistered guest |
One thing that you do not understand is that sometimes a game that previously had almost been lost can be replayed again and again until you can win it. I replayed one game for nearly a day and a half before finally winning it. You must analyze your losing moves to find the winning combination to use. It is a tremendous feeling to finally figure the problem out and win. You must hit the replay button before you finish when you see that you will lose. This is why I have a large score in Rainbow Fan. I do have a competitor that is playing games with me about the score. | ||
| katalin gabor
Unregistered guest |
I am having trouble with submitting my scores. The scores I have submitted on December 7/04 just appeared on the list, on January 3/05. Since December 7/03, I have submitted my scores: On: Dec.15/04,[plus I sent and e-mail re:scores] On: Dec.28/04 and On: January 2 or 3/2005, however, these scores are not on the list. What am I doing incorrectly? Also, I tried to "log in" with my "user Name", "Password" and with my registration Code. The message I get is: "your registration code have not been activated, contact...." HELP | ||
| Thomas Warfield (Support) Moderator Username: Support Post Number: 838 Registered: 12-2002 |
If you have version 10, you can submit your statistics and they will update immediately. With version 9 and below, submissions have a week or two delay, only submissions from before Christmas have been processed. There is no log in for submitting statistics, so I don't know to what you are referring to there. | ||
| katalin gabor
Unregistered guest |
You are correct, "there is no log in" for submitting statistics. However, I have also posted "this!" question under: "Registration Code" Topic. The system did not accept my Username, Password & Registration code when I posted messages to topics thus, I am an "unregistered" meber. Sorry for the "double postings", but I am just learning my way around the forums. | ||
| katalin gabor (Katalin) New Solitaire Player Username: Katalin Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 |
I have submitted my scores 6 times: On: Feb/8/05/, Feb/05/, Feb/28/05/, Mar/6/05/, Mar/15/05/, And on Apr/15/05/, however they have not been posted. Please let me know Why? | ||
| katalin gabor (Katalin) New Solitaire Player Username: Katalin Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 |
PLEASE, SOMEONE, ANYONE, ANSWER MY QUESTION (2nd ime) As of today, May 14, 2005, My (name: kataling) scores sen to you on, April 15, 2005 HAVE NOT BEEN POSTED. WHY? I just posted my scores as of May 14, 2005, (name: kataling) PLEASE POST IT. AND/OR Let me know waht is the problem? kathy_gabor@hotmail.com | ||
| Thomas Warfield (Support) Moderator Username: Support Post Number: 889 Registered: 12-2002 |
If you have version 10 of Pretty Good Solitaire (registered), your statistics will be posted immediately automatically. If you have an earlier version, there is currently a delay of weeks or possibly a month before statistics are posted as a batch. |